What are some practical ways to build safety in your relationship? To get back to love when you’re in conflict? And to create such a solid background of safety and positive energy in your relationship that you can withstand the inevitable bumps along the way? One of the most important skills for you to develop is the ability to come back when things go a bit off-the-rails. In today’s episode, we’re going to give you a tool to help you when times are challenging – and to put even more positive energy in the relationship bank account when things are going well – or even just neutral. Our guest is Gabrielli LaChiara, a teacher and friend whose work has been fundamental in the growth of my own relationship, as well as my coaching and healing work with clients. In our conversation today, Gabrielli blends some of the techniques of Howard Glasser’s Nurtured Heart approach with her own Infinity Healing practice to give you something you can start doing right away to boost your relationship.

Click here to receive the Transcript for Gabrielli LaChiara

As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it!

Resources:

Listen to our first episode with Gabrielli LaChiara – Episode 16: Expanding Your View of What’s Possible in Relationship

Check out Gabrielli LaChiara’s website

FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide – it also still helps during separations…

Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner’s Needs) in Relationship (ALSO FREE) – even this is helpful for understanding the needs of your co-parent

http://www.neilsattin.com/infinity2 Visit to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Gabrielli LaChiara.

Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters – Check them Out

Transcript:

Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. Today, we’re going to dive in to the question of, what can you do in the moment when things are going off the rails with your partner to bring yourself, and to help bring your partner back to presence, to balance, to safety so that you can grow from there. I wanted to give you something really practical, and I also wanted to bring in someone special to give you this something really practical. Her name is Gabrielli LaChiara and she’s been on the show once before back in Episode 16, in an episode entitled “Expanding Your View of What’s Possible in Your Relationship.” That’s a very powerful episode. If you want to check it out, you can go to neilsattin.com/infinity, and you’ll hear in a moment why it’s /infinity. But you can go there to listen to our last episode, but we’re going to build on that, but it’s not required that you listen to that first, just so you know.

Neil Sattin: Gabrielli is a great friend of mine, a close friend, a teacher who has been really a guide for me and Chloe for the past nearly five years. We’ve been in a training with her, learning about this combination of neural science and shamanism and energy work kind of all blended together in a way that’s really practical and has helped us do our healing work in the world. But it wouldn’t be possible without what we’ve learned from Gabrielli LaChiara. I’m really excited to have my friend and teacher here with us today and we’ll start with that question and we’ll take it from there and who knows where we’ll go. It’s always exciting and unpredictable. Thank you so much for joining us today Gabrielli.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Thank you. Hi.

Neil Sattin: Hi. Yeah, great to have you here. It’s so funny that episode 16, that’s practically ancient history for the podcast, and yet amusingly enough I’m actually sitting in the very room where I started recording the podcast ages ago and we’re back there. I think I’ve told everyone listening that Chloe and I moved recently. We’re back in the the big city. So in some ways, even having you on the show is also bringing things back full circle. But of course even though we’re back, it’s always new and different. I feel like we know each other so much better than we did back then as well. So in our last conversation, we focused a lot on this question of how a lot of people find their way into relationship, and then it’s like they didn’t get the memo that their partner actually isn’t out to get them.

[laughter]

Gabrielli LaChiara: I remember that.

[laughter]

Neil Sattin: And that’s a lot of what comes up once people get through that honeymoon phase of just being blissed out on each other. There’s this tension that’s often… You could sum up and translate as, we’re not on the same team. So a lot of what we talked about was, how do we bring people back onto the same team and yet what is so challenging is even if you come from that place and you recognize it, “We’re on the same team, we’re in this together.” The thing is, in a moment where one or the other of you unintentionally or sometimes intentionally ruptures the safety of the relationship in whatever way that happens. Now, it can feel like that person sitting across from you or next to you or in the other room is your enemy. It can just feel that way even if you know intellectually that’s not true. So, one of the initial inspirations for bringing you back on the show was to talk about this strategy, this technique that you’ve taught me and Chloe, and that comes from… I’m going to let you talk about where it comes from but that’s been so helpful when we can remember and make ourselves do it in bringing us back to the moment that we’ve called energizing or presencing. So maybe you could give us a quick background on where this comes from, and then we’ll talk about what it is and how to do it.

Gabrielli LaChiara: That sounds like a good idea. I’m just here talking, and I’m listening and I’m feeling, and I’m having those memories of being on the call last time and just first, I want to acknowledge and appreciate the amount of time and energy and resourcing you’ve done to encourage and support healthy relationships, not only yours, but all of the people who listen. So I just feel, I’m feeling kind of overwhelmed and crazy appreciative of the time and the care you’ve put into developing these resource guides. So what that brings up for me is this kind of welling of gratitude.

Gabrielli LaChiara: It’s interesting because that welling of gratitude is both something that we occasionally have naturally. In this moment, it came natural to me. It just welled up inside of like, “Wow, there’s… So many people’s lives are changing or adjusting, or growing, or learning, or evolving because of this contribution you’re making.” And for how long you’ve been doing that. There’s this well of gratitude. What it reminds me of is my backyard when I was eight years old and I had a really good friend – I had a lot of really good friends, but I can remember this one friend who used to come to my backyard and we would… Her name was Cricket, and we used to play croquet. She was the only friend I had ever had that at that time, that stood out for this one particular reason, which is going to make total sense when I come back to answering your question. Because we would be playing this game, and every time one of us did something well, the other one would celebrate it and start jumping up and down, and we’d get really super silly and funny and playful. I had a lot of friends that I always had fun and laughed with, but this was probably the only friend that I… That ever gave me compliments or that I would give compliments to for doing well.

Gabrielli LaChiara: I could remember how infectious this was, that not only were we playing this game and that we weren’t being competitive, which was its own thing, and I grew up with brothers who were really competitive. So that in and of itself was really fun, but I can remember this feeling in my heart that I would now describe almost like my spirit enlivening, because there was, nobody could do anything wrong. It became an energy, a vibration of total success constantly. So every time we played croquet, we were just feeding this… What felt to me, like I was feeding my soul and my heart with positivity. So that memory flooded in and if I think about where did energizing come and I fast forward, energizing came from… I actually learned the tool called energizing from the Nurtured Heart Approach. I found the Nurtured Heart Approach in parenting, which is, I also now use in school systems across the country and with families, but with everyone, with couples, with people. I found the Nurtured Heart Approach at a time when the intensity in my home with my child was so exaggerated that… And I knew something was wrong, and I would say to people, “I just have to give more. I have to give more. He’s not getting enough from me.” And people around me were like, “You’re a parent who gives way too much to your child. Never mind give them more.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: But I knew something was missing, and I was craving this connection that I was trying to build with this human being that I felt like if I could just build it correctly, if I could give him enough, maybe things wouldn’t be so hard. I was pouring it in, maybe not in all the right places, but I was really devoted to try to pour it in connection. At the time that I found the Nurtured Heart Approach, I picked up the book and poured through it, and I was just fascinated with this idea of where does the energy go in our relationships, and how much time are we putting into, and fuel and resource, are we putting into what’s going wrong? And not that there aren’t boundaries or agreements or consequences that people need with each other in some way, restitutions, but that our actual… Our resource of energy, emotions, relationship, becomes very quickly a paradigm where it’s easy to focus on what’s wrong.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So that sense that your partner is out to get you breeds more and more looking for the problems, more and more noticing the problems, more and more defining the problems. Like our resource, our energy, our emotions, our thoughts and maybe you can identify with this, but I’m sure others can identify with this, how many times do you walk away from your home or your partner and spend hours thinking about what you don’t like about them or what went wrong, or what you’re angry about or planning the conversation you’re going to have to confront some problem? Do you know that space or do you know people that have that?

Neil Sattin: Well, for sure, clients of mine are in that. I feel like some… As I hear you talk about that, miraculously I recognize that in my relationship with Chloe, that’s really not a dynamic that I experience.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Good, good.

Neil Sattin: At least not anymore. There were times where that was really a big deal for us, but yeah, not currently.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Anyway, the concept of energizing was introduced in that way. What I realized is that what I had been craving all along was a way to feed the goodness, the greatness, the essence of my child and/or of everybody. What occurred to me is that my… Everything in my life felt like it came into focus with “what’s important to me is what’s going right”. What’s important to me is how to build from good experiences. What’s important to me is how to take a hard experience and learn from it. But all this positivity that was missing in my emotional dynamics with people – and so for me, the first platform was my child, but then it became this platform of life and I’ve used it in businesses or with couples, and it’s just this cornerstone of what does it take to feed more energy, more attention, more time, and more resource into what is actually going right and into the values that you want to create in your dynamic.

Gabrielli LaChiara: I’ll take it to relationships in this way. I have this image of these grooves that people get into where we’re stuck, we’re maybe frozen in a groove and the power struggle is ever present. So we come home and we kick into it and we think about it. Sometimes we can take a break and be amazing, but then it kicks back in. To me, energizing is like creating a whole another groove, like a river of possibility and a place where no matter how hard it gets, there’s so much in the well of what’s going right and how I believe in you and the faith I have and the values we’re aligned in. There’s so much built, invested in the well that there’s like a currency of positivity we can drink from. So you have a problem and you might dump the well halfway, but you have a well to dump from, to draw from. Does that make sense?

Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, definitely and I think when I reflect on what I just said about what’s up with me and Chloe, I think part of that is that we have so much in the bank account. Even when we’ve had a lot going on that the whole emotional set point of our relationship is so different now than it was in the earlier days.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right. And that investment builds over time, just like the investment in negativity builds over time. So we know that the first time we have a problem that doesn’t win the whole relationship, or we leave. Or if it does, we leave, if it’s that bad. But if we’re sticking around and we’re still having those negative experiences, we begin to create a bank account of negative experiences. The brain is pretty simple sometimes. So it’s very easy for the brain to catalogue and remember the order of those experiences, or maybe not the order, but the magnitude of those experiences, like they build. If we are constantly coming at the problem as a problem focused relationship, we’ll actually feed more problems, and that was the aha. Even if I’m talking about the problems nicely, which was more my style, which is to try to process and talk about the problems and problem solve and come up with solutions and think about what was happening and understand it differently, I was still talking about problems [chuckle] and that meant that I was actually feeding the dynamism of the problem. I was giving it a lot of energy.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So in the human brain, I think because we’re designed for safety, it’s pretty easy to scan and look for the problems. I think that’s just natural. We want to make sure we’re okay. So to look up and be like, “What’s going to go wrong?” I think we do that a lot, driving down the road, walking somewhere, planning for something, we scan what’s going wrong. I don’t think that’s unnatural. So energizing in a way, as much as we can be nice people, energizing might end up being somewhat unnatural to teach the brain and teach ourselves how to focus in on what’s going right. Deliberately, consciously, with effort, with time, and to notice that in order to do that, we have to let something go. We have to temporarily shut off the addiction or attraction to the problem.

Neil Sattin: Right, and that’s what’s so challenging when you’re in a triggered space because you’re so locked in in that moment to the negative, like the part of your brain, that negative bias that’s found the danger. It’s locked in and it’s just saying danger over and over again until you find a way to get yourself out of it. But the strategies that your brain knows automatically are somewhat primitive, for getting out of that.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right, very primitive. Very primitive. So we’re in fight, flight, or freeze and that’s what we’re doing. So when we look at that primal structure, the question becomes, what does it take to comfort that primal structure or to side bar it? Because you’re not going to stop all the reactivity in the relationship, we’re going to have that. We come in in a relationship, there’s no way we get to Earth without having a relationship. They’re required, you’re fused and formed through another human being. Just that puts us in a state of understanding the impact that another human being can have on us. We know deep inside that people have the capacity to annihilate us. We know deep inside that our partners are capable of just wreaking havoc on us. We know that and that becomes almost what we look for. “Are you safe for me”, becomes a way that I look for all the problems to scan if I’m safe. I almost want to find the problem so that I can figure out whether or not you’re really safe. And yet that in and of itself is a formula for creating travesties, crisis, problems. All kinds of brokenness comes from running into the problems on purpose over and over and over again. Right?

Neil Sattin: Right. Because if you’re looking for it and that’s where you’re tuned in all the time, then that gives so much more weight to the moments where you might say, “Oh, see there, there it is. I told you I wasn’t safe,” and it just it becomes this self-validating thing. Whereas if you weren’t looking for evidence, you would have so much more resilience in how you interpreted things that maybe are coming at you cross-wise. But in the context of, “Am I safe or not?” Then everything that comes at you cross-wise becomes just that confirmation of like, “Oh, I guess I really am not safe.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right. There’s strategies, all kinds of things that I think about in this conversation, but one of them is like, “Can I trust myself over a long period of time to be able to gauge and assess safety?” If safety isn’t every single dynamic that’s happening or if my assessment of safety doesn’t have to happen on every breath I take in this room, it does require us, and maybe we don’t know, relationships are changing so much in our culture. We’re not diving into relationships just for security or some of us are not. So if we’re choosing a relationship for love, we have even that much more on the line. And what does it even mean? There’s not a template that has been around long enough that we can totally count on, and maybe one template doesn’t work for everyone.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So there’s this vulnerability and like, “What’s it going to take for me personally?” This is my vulnerability to be able to assess appropriately whether or not someone’s safe for me. On the one hand, I want to know right away and on another hand, I never want to know. Like I both don’t ever want to know that you’re unsafe for me, and I’m dying to find out right now that you’re unsafe so I can blow it up and get out of here, or I’m like so, how do I manage that? I think that’s a real conundrum, again, in the primal brain. So on one hand, we’re looking at a container that’s longer ranging. So one being, “Can I put in some tools for myself? Where is my accountability? Who am I going to work with outside of my partnership to support me and being able to assess if this person really is safe for me?” Can I allow my brain to relax a bit if I say like, “Okay, I’m going to take the next three months, six months, a year, whatever, and begin to define what that means.” Like, “How often is this person being, am I in conflict with them? Are those conflicts real or are they not real? Are they over whether or not I moved my mug on the counter? Or are we actually diving into dynamics that are really not okay and emotionally unhealthy?”

Gabrielli LaChiara: So there’s all this context in that way. Coming back to the moment with you, I would say when we energize, what we’re doing is building a platform so that we can get triggered and we don’t get lost. So to me, energizing is a backdrop. It’s like the screen saver. I want to feel like every time I rest my brain, I go to the whole well, the whole investments. I dive into all the delicious places where things have gone right and that therefore, when something does go wrong, I can bounce back faster. So it’s… We’re never going to not be triggered by our partners, that would be insane to think we could do that. So, can we find a safe way to get triggered, feel contracted, reset, bounce back, and then what do we step into? If there’s not a well there that’s healthy and vibrant and filled with not just great experiences, but meaning, deep purpose and meaning, and values, then we have a harder time coming out of the conflict. Does that make sense?

Neil Sattin: Right, because it’s like, what are you coming out to?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Exactly. You don’t know how to get out. And as you were saying before, when the brain gets that fixated, it’s expecting trauma. If we’re in fight, flight and freeze we think someone’s dying, it’s an expectation of trauma. It’s huge when we get that triggered. So in order to step out of that, the part of our brain that’s not traumatized has to take over and look around and be like, “But hey, look, all these things are okay.” Like, “These things are safe, and this person has met your values in that way, and they have kindness, and here’s how it shows and look at all the moments where there’s been respect and care given to one another.” So we need to have evidence of what’s going right and that evidence has to be so specific, and clear, and digestible, irrefutable in order for it to stick. It has to therefore become a bigger pulse than the problems we have.

Neil Sattin: Yeah. So, what would that look like? Maybe it’s worth talking about how you set that as a backdrop, but also when I think on our experience, how that translates in a triggered moment, it’s so… It becomes so stripped down to the bare bones of that.

Gabrielli LaChiara: I’ll speak to both of those. So, let me just speak to energizing first. I’m really fond of reboots, bounce backs, resets, whatever you want to call them. I love them, even do overs I love. I love when we get to notice that we’re off track. And to me, there’s like a foundation also and an agreement that says, “Hey, if we get off track, here’s the things we’re going to do. Here’s what we’re going to do if we get off track.” And anyone can cry uncle, anyone can throw in the red flag, but once we’re off track, whoever can reset first, resets until the other person catches up. And usually that needs some agreements, like some basic structures of, “Okay. We’re going to take either 10 minutes or two hours or two days, whatever it is, but at that point when we come back together, how do we come back together?” And that’s the connection to energizing. If we only do energizing when we’ve had a problem, we’ll actually instigate more problems, because as nice as that sounds, when we give each other a lot of positive feedback after we’ve blown out, and the make up sex and all those things that people talk about, “Let’s get in a fight and make it better.” It actually feeds that getting in a fight ends up in a good place. And so we want to be a little careful not to only do your energizing and positive connections after there’s been a problem.

Neil Sattin: Yeah. I was also thinking of this kind of built-in and this is… The word conundrum is coming to me again, where if you only do it when you’re having a problem, then when you’re doing it, it would reinforce the like, “Oh, right, we’re having a problem right now.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right.

Neil Sattin: Versus what you want it to be reinforcing, which is, “No, the backdrop of this problem is actually that we’re safe right now and we’ve got each other.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right, right. Then also partners, relationships knowing their limits, part of resetting and rebooting is actually knowing when you’re over your head. So if you keep trying to tackle a topic that becomes toxic, or out of control or painful, then it’s helpful to be able to recognize that either we’re not strong enough yet to do this or we need help, or it’s just not the right timing.

Neil Sattin: Right.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So when we put energizing in as the backdrop, and I think it feels helpful to me to describe it a little bit?

Neil Sattin: Yes.

Gabrielli LaChiara: But if we put energizing in as a backdrop, what we’re doing is saying, “Okay. So let’s return to our safety. Let’s remember why we’re in this relationship.” Let’s go back to the values and the things that bring us together, and that each of us hold as the goodness and greatness of who we are as people. Then let’s rationally take a look, when we’re ready, that whether or not we just need to take a topic off the table for a little while. Or it could be as simple as, “Don’t ever talk about that topic at dinner, because we can’t do that over food.” Maybe there’s triggers we don’t know about. Or it could be as big as, “We’re not going to be able to resolve that on our own, so let’s get some therapy and help and support and put some pieces together that we might be missing.” Right?

Neil Sattin: Right.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Let me dive into energizing. The Nurtured Heart Approach, it’s a fabulous body of work and it was designed for parenting. And again, I took it and started playing with it in schools and education, teachers, administrations, relationships, relationships, relationships, ’cause I love it. I just love it. It struck the chord in me of that little girl that knew that when we meet each other out of competition and in positivity, the world just gets so much brighter and we all feel safer. So Howard Glasser is the founder of that. I just will name that for him, and people can look up his work if they want to. But what I’ll say about energizing, that I thought was profound, is that it’s, first of all, it’s easier to focus on the negative. That’s more natural to our brains. When we are triggered, we usually can catalog, to the detail, something that’s going on. So the brain does this thing where it’s like, “You opened the door. Then you looked at me and then you turned to the right. Then you turned to the left. And you had on a black shirt. And you went over there. And then you went over here.” We know everything that happened and all of that was the evidence that you hate me.

Gabrielli LaChiara: In Nurtured Heart and in energizing, there’s this flip around which says, “Wait a minute, I’m going to catalog the facts of the moment. I’m going to fine tune down to just the facts of a moment; not a big, grandiose generalized thing.” The New York Times wrote an article about why praise and compliments were bad years ago. It was interesting to me because I kinda get it. When you do a lot of empty, open praise and there’s pain, we often don’t believe the compliments and they can actually backfire on us. So, if somebody’s saying to me, “That was amazing, you’re great.” And I feel insecure inside, I’m like, “Nah, you’re wrong. I am just… I suck.” In energizing, the idea was to create safety, and the safety is the evidence, the irrefutable evidence that I’m really seeing you, present and clear, in this moment in time, and those are the facts. So they become those same kind of facts we use when we’re upset, but they’re when nothing’s going wrong. The most amazing time to energize is when nothing’s going right and nothing’s going wrong. It’s a neutral because we begin to say, “Oh, all of the things that happen in between, the amazing moments and the horrible moments, count. They’re important to me.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: So we fact find simple like, “Hey, you were looking at me. When you walked in the door, you weren’t angry and you came to the table and you put down your book and you looked up and I glanced at you and we caught eyes and that means something to me because all of those tiny little things that happened show me that you care.” So we qualify it with our value and our values are personal. We can qualify it with any value. It’s whatever value I decide to qualify it as. That’s the prerogative of the giver. But the person receiving is received in facts first. So again, “You walked in the door. You put down your book. You looked up and looked me in the eye. And when you did that, I felt cared for. I just gave you the value that’s important to me, or you showed kindness. Or I felt respected, I felt noticed.” What becomes so important are the facts. You can just say facts, and that still energizes. People think it’s awkward, but honestly, it’s like the most natural thing we do. We just don’t practice it when nothing’s going wrong. [chuckle] Because again, it’s natural when people are angry, whether they say it out loud or not, or hurt, they’re fact finding the whole time, they’re thinking about every tiny detail of what went wrong. It’s very natural to do.

Neil Sattin: Right. So there’s tuning into the actual details of what you’re noticing and naming them. How do you draw the connection, for instance between, “and you did all these things and what that means to me is that you care about me”, where it might seem tenuous? Well, how did my coming in and setting my book down on the counter… I’m just thinking of the classic example would be, “You came in, you put your shit down on the table. And I got pissed because I’ve been trying to clean the house all day and now there’s more shit on the table.” It’s like… So, how do you turn that into these elements that really don’t necessarily have a meaning attached to them unless a partner is maliciously like putting things on the table to disrupt the cleanliness of the house or something like that. Yeah. How do you draw that connection in a way that feels genuine?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Yeah, that’s a great question. First of all, it won’t in the beginning feel genuine. So I’ll just throw that out for a second because we kinda do have to fake it until we make it. There’s something about getting the brain to be comfortable saying these words, fact finding, and then putting positive things on it is going to be awkward. So both partners have to be responsive, although I’ve seen relationships change because one partner just decides to go forward and the other one doesn’t even involve themselves at all. The intention is what counts. So first of all, the integrity to be working towards change and to be saying, “I’m going to deliberately focus on what’s going right. I’m just going to focus on it,” as hard as it might seem rather than making up stories, because we’re either finding facts or we’re making up stories. It’s pretty much what our brain does. We find facts or we make up stories, we’re doing it all the time anyway, so I can find the facts to make up a story of something great, or I can find the facts to make up a story of something horrible, where it really is awkward to find the facts and say good things about them for a lot of us.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Even those people who are positive, it’s awkward. Because we usually aren’t being that specific. And so a couple could do it. There’s of couple of options. If the couple together is on board, then they together might decide, “Let’s focus on kindness and respect for a month, and let’s just look for it everywhere we can. And let’s energize each other anywhere from one to 20 times a day in any way that we see kindness and respect in each other,” and even ourselves, I can do it for myself. Like today, I did this thing, and it was an act of kindness. And here’s the five facts of what I did. I saw somebody fall down. I stopped over to see if they were okay. I waited for their friend to come get to them who was at the car. But I showed kindness. There needs to be an agreement on some level if you do it that way because I think it’s helpful for partners to both get on board. And yet if you can’t have that agreement, it’s really just one person drawing from wherever they can find.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So you can be spontaneous and just say whatever comes to mind, you can have teachers in classrooms, and parents sometimes put words all over the ceiling and the wall, and the refrigerators, and they just look for a word. It’s like, “Okay. I’m going to look for the facts. You just sat down at the table and now you put your fork down and now you’re looking at me.” And all of a sudden I’m like, I have a moment to create something, but I don’t know what to do. And so I look up and I’m like, “Oh, oh, I see. I have 10 choices. Okay, that shows me, I’m going to choose respect, for example.” All of this sounds kind of trite, or maybe awkward and weird as it is but my experience is that when we deliberately focus on building the muscle of positivity and energizing and caring about our values, it takes of like wildfire in no time, it really in a couple of weeks is natural. We want it. We want to be acknowledged, it’s a primal need to be valued. To be loved.

Neil Sattin: That’s one reason why I think the facts are so important. Is that, one, kind of like what you were saying earlier. It’s grounding it in a reality, so it’s that part of you that wants to discount what your partner is saying. “Well, I can’t argue with the fact that I came in the house and I set down my briefcase and I looked at you, those things did happen.” So it kind of messes with that part of the circuitry that otherwise might say, “No, I don’t believe you.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: I don’t believe you, right. Oops, sorry.

Neil Sattin: It’s okay. Also, I want to just point out that, because I think you listening probably… You have a sense that I’m a pretty positive person and the fact that I think I’ve probably even said those words. This has been hard for me to put into practice regularly even coming from a positive place. So I like that you use that analogy of building a muscle and breaking it down to its constituent components.

Gabrielli LaChiara: It is like working out. So if we think of it like, “We’re going to put an exercise plan in our life.” We know that exercising is healthy for us, and we also know that not exercising over a long, long, long period of time will cause a problem. So if we look at the relationship and we say, “We want to build this muscle.” Then we know that if we exercise the muscle of seeing each other, believing, and I would say that ultimately, the muscle is, “Can I believe in you?”, and it helps the person giving maybe even more than the person receiving. It’s like when I look at you and I can remember that you’re a kind person, and I can look at you and I can say, “Whoa, that was so… That little thing you did that you do all the time, it can count. It actually counts for something incredible about you.” Then I also have some fortitude to remember like, “Wait a minute, I’m not seeing you clearly when all I see is the bad thing.” And build my muscle. So it really is like an exercise.

Gabrielli LaChiara: I encourage people. Often, they’ll start out or they’ll… With a week at a time, and then I encourage like tracking it a little bit, and resetting it as a bigger picture, too. The couple can do this for two weeks, and then sit down, and talk about how it’s going and then put it back in place, and do it again. Just to try to think like, “Okay. I need to keep this going.” And how do we do that? It does build on itself, the reservoir of goodness begins to take effect, and it can have a couple things happen. One time I’ve… Not one time, but many times, I see partners actually temporarily feel worse ’cause they’re like, “Oh, my God. This is terrible. I have never been acknowledged my whole life, and I’m starting to feel some sadness about not being seen so many times.” and yet I’m not angry at my partner, and I’m not sad about them. It might bring up the emotions that are underneath the conflicts that are more personal to each person. Other times, it just feeds a part of the need on such a deep level that people start to relax with each other and they start to realize like, “Oh, we could actually enjoy each other.”

Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah. That makes me think about how important this is in a triggered moment. And why this… I guess what my brain is doing right now is it’s forming the connection again between, “Right. I feel seen by my partner and I actually feel very seen when I’m getting the facts.” Because it’s like that is what is happening right now. It’s, “I’m not getting the story. I’m getting all of your attention really.” So receiving that is so nourishing and then coming back to that in a triggered moment reminds you, ’cause I think you’re not really in your body so much when you’re triggered. So again, it’s another way that you’re reminded, “Oh, wait a minute. One, I actually exist” because it could be a reminder like I’m hearing that I just put my hand down on the cushion. And that reminds me that I, for one thing, have a fucking hand and there it is on the cushion. It’s like bringing me back to me in those moments.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Well, present. It’s bringing you into presence for present time and if that’s the body, that’s incredible because you’re right. We do disconnect from our body awareness when we’re in pain. That’s very normal to have happened, so this idea that we could bring each other into present time. One thing I’ll say is, it’s interesting most of the time, we’re having a problem with our partners in our own head. So we could have a conflict, and that conflict can last 10 minutes or an hour. Often, the conflict lasts this 10 or 15-minute thing. And then for an hour, we feel awful. Maybe two hours, a minute, who knows what happens? Maybe we go off to work, and come home. Maybe, we get distracted. But what happens is it doesn’t leave our brain. So our brain is thinking about our partner from the lens of that moment, for hours and hours, if not, weeks, and days, and years. So we catalogue that, and that’s how I think of you. So then I see you in this moment, and I’m not really seeing you in this moment free from any other moment. This moment is packed with 80 million other things.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So this idea that we can pull ourselves and our partners back into present time, which is like even if we had a conflict an hour ago, and this is why I like resetting, and coming back to energizing especially if there’s already been energizing as a backdrop. Then when we come back it’s like, “Let me just get in this moment now because maybe that thing is not resolvable. Maybe I did something to hurt your feelings. Maybe you hurt my feelings. Maybe I can’t even fix that thing. Maybe that’s not the goal, to try to go fix the problem we had. But at least if I could come back here and remember like, “You’re still a person sitting across from me. Probably now, you’re not actually doing anything that bad anymore.” Now, you actually might just be sitting there eating food or watching TV or walking the dog.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: It’s like, and I am losing all of these moments of freedom that I get to reclaim by recognizing that the present time is not still filled with that conflict. So it does this amazing lensing of coming back and checking like, “Are we still in crisis or not?” Again, there’s this thing about what do you with the problem? And gosh, I could… I think I probably have two weeks worth of teleclasses I could talk to you about. [chuckle] My brain is filled with so much. Because there’s a question of what we do with the problem and what we do with those conflicts we can’t resolve, ’cause we’ll have them. We all have them and how to hold that and come back to energizing and then know how to come back to the problem in a healthy way, right?

Neil Sattin: Right.

Gabrielli LaChiara: But there’s this whole idea of, can we build this reservoir so full that we can bounce back from the problems. So that when we approach them, we actually have the space to approach them in a more healthy way.

Neil Sattin: Right. Right. Because when you have the backdrop of safety supporting you as you enter a conversation about a problem, that’s way different than entering a conversation about a problem feeling like you’re about to drop a bomb or…

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right.

Neil Sattin: Something like that, yeah.

Gabrielli LaChiara: And you might get triggered exactly the same as soon as it comes up again, and you may not be able to resolve that, and you may then have to bounce back and reset again. What I would say is that that’s the way of building health and the dynamic is to recognize your limits. Sometimes we really can’t solve that problem and we’re going to need help, or we’re going to need space or time to reflect, or maybe we’re missing a whole pile of information we haven’t even thought of yet. So when we keep having that same injury or hurt recall, when the pain keeps coming back every time we approach the problem, it’s good information. It’s like, “Oh, wow, we really do have a conflict we can’t resolve yet. And so what are we going to do about that?”

Neil Sattin: Yeah. How do you… Let’s say you have something like that in your relationship, how do you hold on to the energy of growth and change and just entrusting in the unfolding, even though you know that that problem is still there and unresolved?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right, right. That would be where you orient the values of the relationship. Again, it brings me to so many other pieces that are just part of the scaffolding, and I won’t spend too much time here, and I am about to launch a teleclass or actually by the time this call is put out, the teleclass will have happened, on relationships, parenting in particular, energizing, but also relationships and energizing and the containers. Because there is like, how do we put together a container that allows room to assess whether or not we’re safe together? And what are the pieces we put in place including energizing? How do we create a backdrop? Do we need to be in a constant crisis in order to prove that the relationship is good or bad? Some of us are staying in constant crisis because we’re trying to prove that we have permission to leave, but I don’t even know if that’s required. I think you could have an energized set of values in a relationship and still hit a precipice where you decide for yourself or someone else that the relationship’s not healthy because those conflicts are unresolvable. Sometimes there are deal breakers.

Gabrielli LaChiara: But if I come back and I say like, “Wow, how do I want to live every day of my life? And how do I want to be in charge of me?” The most empowering way to live is through that lens of, I’m going to look for my values. I’m going to see them in other people. I’m going to recognize what’s going right. That doesn’t make me delusional. I’m not going to pretend there aren’t conflicts, but I’m going to step into my conflicts intentionally so that I have the fortitude to handle them and the strength to handle them. What does that look like?

Neil Sattin: Yeah. And that’s one thing that I love about tying it into your values is that, that it’s part of reinforcing. When you say values, what I’m hearing is, this is the way that I operate, these are the things that I’ve… The principles that I’ve decided are important to me, that I’ve chosen for the guiding force in my life. And so those are things that aren’t circumstantial as opposed to… We’ve talked on the show before about appreciations as a great way of creating positive energy in your relationship and yet appreciations can be somewhat circumstantial. I appreciate this thing about you. It’s yeah, almost conditional.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right. And this is really coming into unconditional focus on, again, that I could think what’s going right. Love itself is this essence that we get to play in, and the actions that we do can be loving and energizing is like all this build up of loving, kind actions that we put in place so that we can feel that essence permeate through us of the love that we’re looking for. Most of us choose our partners because there’s some value already aligned that we saw somewhere conscious or unconscious. There’s something in the way they move or operate or their lifestyle that at least we thought or we hoped or we felt would inspire us and match something fundamentally important to ourselves. So they’re in there already. We’re already thinking through those lenses. We’re looking for people, partners who can nurse that part of ourselves or each other, or bring wholeness to some parts of who we are.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So this focus is not so much again about being Pollyanna, “I’m going to say a whole bunch of nice things” or about being positive because I want to manipulate you. And there’s always a caution like somebody likes… There’s people that like to do that energizing because I’m hoping that it’ll stop you from getting mad at me later. That’s not what it’s about either, it’s about being present and it’s about really focusing on what’s important in the moment. Again, that cataloging, actively fact finding into the moment. And at first people think there’s not enough facts, but there’s millions of them. We’re changing every second.

Gabrielli LaChiara: So fact finding into the moment and then imbuing it with something important, with something that feels so important to me, it teaches you about me. So when I say, “Well, when you do those seven things and I felt cared for,” I just taught you a formula about what care means to me. If I do that again 20 different times in 20 ways, you now understand what caring means to me. You might be a really caring person, and I might not feel it because you might not understand what caring means to me and how do we define, how do we teach each other about ourselves. Well, that’s the over arching feeling in this, which is I get to expose myself to you and show you what’s important to me, and I get to see it in you and dig for it and play with it and reveal really myself to you through energizing. But also really show up and see you as a whole person who I can value for just existing and that level of, I value you for existing falls away pretty quickly after the honeymoon, right?

Neil Sattin: Right [chuckle]

Gabrielli LaChiara: I mean, when we meet with somebody, we’re so curious and we do energize a lot. If you think about the beginning of relationships, a lot of times people are a lot more generous with like, “Oh my God, you showed up at my door and knocked and waited for me. And I opened the door and you brought flowers and I feel so loved.” Then for some reason three months later, you knock on the door and I don’t notice anymore. I’m like, “Why are you knocking? Just come in. You’re annoying.” So [chuckle] It’s like in the beginning we’re looking for the evidence that you are one true love and that you are perfect for us and that you’re amazing. So we’re storing that goodness and we’re not again, we’re not getting delusional. We’re still recognizing, we’re actually using it so that we can see clearly, so that we can have space from the problems, so that we can look at them with more objectivity and intentionality and focus on whether or not those issues are, we need tools to resolve those issues or not, right?

Neil Sattin: Yeah. There are couple things that are jumping out at me right now. One is, I’m thinking about the distortions that do happen, that sometimes people do get stuck in that initial, I found evidence that you’re an amazing person, despite all the buckets of evidence that you’re actually truly dangerous for me and they get stuck there. And so they don’t leave situations or try to solve problems that really either ought to be solved or you ought to find a way out.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Yeah, right.

Neil Sattin: Or on the flip side, you could be in a situation that’s not so cataclysmic, but you’re stuck in that danger and “am I safe”? Both of those end up being distortions that I see as I’m working with clients. So I love that you brought that out, the ways that we are always looking for evidence of some sort or another. There’s one important thing that I want to go back to in the fact finding and creating a value and how that works, why that works in a triggered moment. And this is something that I just wanted to share because I found it to be so profoundly helpful, which is you could think like, “Alright, I’m in a triggered moment, and so I’m going to energize my partner. I’m going to do all this fact finding, and I’m going to say, ‘And that tells me that you love me, or that tells me that you care about me, or that tells me that you’re still here even though we’re fighting right now.'”

Neil Sattin: It’s tempting to think that I’m doing that for the other person versus my experience of it, which is when I’m really triggered by focusing on the facts of the moment and how that connects to my values, that actually helps restore me back to balance. So even though it’s sort of directed at the other person or the other person is the subject of everything that I’m saying, the effect is actually, “Oh, I’m presencing myself and bringing myself back online.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right. Right. We have the opportunity to just energize ourselves. I think the only thing about noting a triggered moment is if there’s enough trigger that one person needs space. Then that space has to happen before the energizing can come in. So when I’m the partner that when I’m triggered, I want more connection, I might start energizing like crazy, but I could torture the partner who feels trapped. It’s like, “Can you just stop talking?” [chuckle] In that case I might do better energizing, walking away and energizing myself, or walking away and energizing my partner like writing it down, writing down the five things I want to say. Fact finding, put it together, resetting my own brain first, and then giving them that download when they’re ready. So I love having a reset protocol. I like people being able to say, “Hey,” when someone throws at red flag in on the moment we’re in on the play that’s going on, let’s throw the red flag in. That means that, and this is good to set up before you’re in a trigger, but that means that we get to take an hour and actually not talk to each other. Then come back and when we come back, the agreement is to energize. That’s our way back in, which is to really focus on what’s going… A moment that something went right. And I like it being in the moment as close as possible.

Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielli LaChiara: If you have a dynamic where the trigger is not so intense simultaneously, and I’m triggered, but maybe my partner’s not even triggered at all, is the best thing in the world for me to do is energize my partner, ’cause it gets me back on track. Instead of standing there, staying triggered at somebody who maybe they didn’t even know they did anything, they just walked by and brushed into my arm at the wrong time, and I took it as them being in my way or something. I then get to reset myself by energizing that person. That’s so powerful. It’s so powerful.

Neil Sattin: Yeah. I was also just struck by the thought of how powerful it is. So if you’re someone who tends to lean in in a triggered moment, you’re looking for a connection as a way of staying safe, and you’re partnered with someone who needs a little space so that they don’t feel overwhelmed, what’s often challenging about that is it’s hard to walk away and give your partner space, because in your world what giving space means is, “I don’t care about you.” So I see this as a perfect opportunity for the energizing for you. So if I’m the lean inner, and I’m recognizing, “Okay. In this moment, my partner needs some space, So I’m going to energize myself.” I’m getting up, I’m walking away from the table, and this shows me how much I actually care about my partner, to counteract the fear that I’m getting up. On the flip side, it would be, “I’m getting up, I’m walking away, and this communicates to my partner how much I’m rejecting them,” which is what the experience would be of someone who wants connection in those moments. Is that making sense?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Totally, totally makes sense. And the partner who’s… The person, we have over-attachment and over-independence, really. We have this attachment, abandonment/attachment, entrapment that happens all over the place. I don’t know how we can’t be working that out. We literally, as I said before, we’re fused through a body. We come in total enmeshment, and then stretch into independence and all the things that happen as we find ourselves as independent from our caregivers early on. We’re all parts of these attachment paradigms that we’re in. And so as you’re talking, I’m thinking about, yeah, that person who wants to over-attach, I need to cling on and partly, I don’t want you to abandon me, so I never want to abandon you. So I’m grabbing, on that idea that I can take that feeling of staying connected and put it some place. I’m going to write it down and hold it and treasure it, and love it, and energize by putting it on this piece of paper, or this place that I can bring to you when you’re ready.

Gabrielli LaChiara: The work it takes for that person who’s un-attaching, who doesn’t want to un-attach, is that they’re also terrified that the other person is never going to come back. So when you have an agreement to come back to energizing, and you have experiences that build, again, like a muscle, like you separate out, you give the person space, and they come back and energize you when they come back from their hour, two hours or a day they need to take off ’cause their brain is just so flooded they can’t focus, they come back and they actually come back with connection. It appeases both partners. Both people feel like, “Oh, there’s the connection that I was looking for, so I get safer at giving you space… “

Neil Sattin: Right.

Gabrielli LaChiara: “Knowing that I’m coming back to something I need, and that you’re going to meet my need when we come back.” So we’re meeting our needs for connection. It’s all like this interplay of also having a healthy… I think a lot of us don’t think we’re ever going to fight again. We have a big fight, and we never want it to happen again, [chuckle] so we go into some part of the brain that’s like, “Oh, good. I just… I’m going to pretend that’s never going to happen.” Then when it happens, we’re surprised again, and we’re totally overwhelmed. [chuckle] So the idea that you could have a structure that’s like, “Hey, let’s plan on it. Let’s build a bank account of investments in our positivity and our values, and energize ourselves like crazy as a backdrop, because some day we’re going to have, if not every day, a little bit, we’re going to have these triggers kick in, and we get a need to know how to draw from the well to balance that. Let’s have a plan for when we’re triggered so that we can actually have a protocol set in place, an idea of what’s going to happen when, that takes into account two people’s needs so that we… It’s already scheduled, so if we hit the trigger, I’m not wondering what’s going to happen next. I’m like, “Oh, I know what we’re going to do. In three hours, we’re going to come back and talk to each other.” We might agree that we can’t deal with the topic, but at least, we can come back to the toolbox.” Right?

Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah, I’m getting distracted by this weird… Yeah, this energy of something different that’s coming up and maybe before I bring that up, I want to just give you an opportunity, ’cause you mentioned the class that you’re about to teach. If you’re interested in finding out more about Gabrielli and her work, it’s funny because we focus on so much of the practical stuff here, and yet, it’s so much more than that. In fact, that’s where my head and next question is going. But if you’re interested in finding out more about Gabrielli’s work, you can visit gabrielli.org, and there’s a bunch of free stuff there for you. Just a little bit more about what the class is going to be, Gabrielli?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Sure. It’ll be four teleclasses, each an hour and a half long and the teleclasses themselves would be designed to break down more about energizing, but really to look at kind of the value based relationships. How do we establish them? What does it look like? Where is the essence? What are we feeding? So for me, as a whole, it’s layered with both tools, resources, ideas and concepts, and also, within that, there’ll be an opportunity for some really powerful healing. So the healing that takes place in being able to look at how we actually dissolve on the emotional, energetic, mental planes these contracts we get into or the hiccups or the triggers that get triggered that may or may not be about our partners. So, how to resolve some of that together? So we’ll both do some healing work on that, and I’ll really download a bunch of just practical the outline of how we establish healthier relationships from this paradigm.

Neil Sattin: Awesome. Awesome. I’m sure it will be a really powerful class, so I encourage you to check that out and the link will be available in the transcript for this episode, which you can get by visiting neilsattin.com/infinity and then the number two, so infinity2 and speaking of Infinity, that is the name of Gabrielli’s modality that Chloe and I have been studying with her for a number of years now, Infinity Healing Practice, and that’s why we’re using infinity for this show. It makes me think about this concept of being… Instead of being a body with an energetic being stuck inside it, of actually being an infinite energetic being with the body. When you’re talking about the relationship that we are experiencing with other people and the power of energizing, I’m thinking about how so much of the healing work that happens is about resolving some of the dichotomies between feeling that infinite potential in who we are and then the limitations that our body gives us.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right.

Neil Sattin: Yeah, so that just pushed me into this whole ‘nother place. And I don’t know how much time we have really at this point, you tell me, but that’s where… That’s what was distracting me ’cause I got really excited to think about, “Oh yeah, there’s that inner relationship that challenges so many of us where we feel like, “Wait a minute, what I’m doing right now or what I’m seeing manifests in how I act or in how my body is, in the conditions that I have, the pain or whatever it is,” like, “That’s not in alignment with my own values about what I want for my life.” And, you know, that’s…

Gabrielli LaChiara: Yeah. I’m going to dive… This is so beautiful. Thank you for saying that and I’m going to just dive into what’s coming up for me. Yes, yes, yes. First of all, yes. We are these tiny, really tiny little bodies and the body is just the center of an infinite being and our beings are the essence. Some people call that the spirit. It’s like we’re all essence. You know that being is, it’s not a human. It doesn’t get broken by our human experiences. The being is this platform where we can find intuition and knowing and awareness and perception. So we have this powerful being at our fingertips and I’ll tell you, I think that what happens is when we fall in love, we ignite that essence. We feel the container of being held.

Gabrielli LaChiara: If we think about being just a soul and a being with no body, and we come into a form, we merge into this form, but then we’re situated in the essence and the potency of our mothers, whatever that looks like and we’re inside of another whole person. So to think there’s a couple of cells that’s… They’re in this huge complex organism that is surrounding, caring for, building, nurturing and growing us. So we’re grown into this idea that we’re one thing inside of another is what we always know. When we’re finally just our own little form, it’s like this sense of, “I’m a body, I’m a center of an infinite being that becomes my lifetime’s gift of a womb. I get to re-womb myself over and over and over and over again.” We can get very body conscious because the body is the place where we feel, it’s a simple kind of complex enclosed structure and so many of us derive healing when we remember like, “Oh, I’m a body, but I have this resource to stretch into.”

Gabrielli LaChiara: I really believe that we fall in love, and some of the distortions that happen that are so beautiful are the fantasies that somehow you’re going to be my being. I’m going to get in you, and you’re going to provide all those things that are going to make me feel safe. So we step into this paradigm of falling in love, and we feel so much essence in that, and it’s this powerful feeling. For some of us, we get lost in that because we get so lost in the being that we don’t recognize that the human that we’re with as a person doesn’t actually match anything that makes us safe in life. [chuckle] It’s like, the facts of the two bodies, and we need both things in a relationship. We need two bodies that, when they’re together, have similar enough values and structures and habits that we actually can be safe in the human complex, but yet, very simple structure. Then we need two essences or beings that can merge and harmonize and create a pulse of energy and spirit to derive from that feeds beyond that factual form. Right?

Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Energizing is about really bringing alive the beingness of one another. For me, what that does over time is that you live it, and you get to see more clearly like, “Well, who are we as these little factual human structures? Can we be safe in human form? Can we be beings that can be that aware and that connected to one another?” So that’s what you brought in for me is just this whole, “If I don’t need to wait… ” It’s like, “If I don’t put on my partner the responsibility of being every parent that I didn’t have, or fixing everything that ever happened to me, or somehow being God for me really, saving me in some way, then how do I have a relationship with someone where we can equally hold the potency of each of our essences and also have ourselves?” It’s like, “How do I do my own work in that?” So if I am the center of an infinite being, and I can derive all my needs from that being, what is the purpose of relationship?

Gabrielli LaChiara: So I think there’s a real confusion in our culture about why we’re doing love and falling in love in and of itself has a sense that it rescues us from something or saves us. Look at all the movies. It’s like you get fixed, as if you become whole because of someone else. That’s really unfair. We torture each other with that. So how do two people harmonize into a dynamic where the dichotomy of being human and being powerful beings can allow us to see clearly what safety looks like and what our real needs are, right?

Neil Sattin: Right. Right. And can we be developing the inner safety? I love that image of us, our energetic being creating the womb for our body to keep growing and being nurtured. So how do we do that over and over again to create safety for ourselves? And then how do we bring that with integrity to our partnership and our relationship?

Gabrielli LaChiara: Right. Right. And what does it look like when you’re both seeing the factual body? So this is where I love the blend of what this tool has done for me, and sort of where it meets infinity. Because what I see when we energize is that we fact-find the body. That’s the body experience, body consciousness. I’m fact-finding the human. I see you in realtime on earth in a body, and then I imbue it with essence, which is all beingness. I also see your being, and your body is an expression of that being all the time, 100% of the time. So to me, energizing was a platform for so much healthy embodiment and communion between beings and bodies. I see you as a whole body with this being, this essence and energy that, again, never gets broken, so it’s always there no matter who your partner is. For those of us who fell in love, and this was me, I fell in love with potential, I went all being and I couldn’t see the facts of the body. The person wasn’t healthy for me as a physical form on earth, but I loved their essence, right?

Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm.

Gabrielli LaChiara: And some people love someone’s body, but their essence is totally not matching anything, or they’re not even, maybe the person doesn’t even want that or have that. They’re not even attending to it. So we get lost in that paradigm, but what if we could have both? What if we could have both? And what if we become the vehicle for each other? In my partnership of almost 14 years, I feel like that’s what we’ve done. We’re like the vehicle for each other to remember who we are in all these levels that we’re still energizing all the time and we’ve lived through a fair share of different kinds of things, things that have happened in our families and traumas. It’s like, the bounce back is so strong because that’s the human life being lived, but almost like we created a being that is our relationship all by itself. Our beings are harmonized in support of each other. I always, always see the best in him in terms of… I don’t think he’s trying to hurt me. If I’m getting hurt, something’s happening. That doesn’t mean I can’t ask for change. But I don’t believe as a person he’s wanting to take me down, right?

Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah. So with that, I’m wondering if there’s an invocation or a clearing that comes to you as a way to maybe create an offering for everyone listening, whether they’re in relationship or single, but that helps them experience what we’re talking about?

Gabrielli LaChiara: If anybody’s listening to this call, they’re in relationship. We’re never not in relationship, and we always get to do the work of relationship, whether we’re sharing our bodies with someone else or not. So the first thing I would say is, what does it take to honor that relationship isn’t just the one beloved I choose to be sexual with, but it’s… Or however many, we share in that way. But that relationship is an inside job that’s happening. We’re in relation to the world all the time, and this relationship, first and primary to my body and my own being becomes a relationship I get to have with this… Can I allow my divine essence and my own higher self nurture the parts of me that are still just human and hurt and in pain and struggling and walking and breathing?

Gabrielli LaChiara: So I guess I would, from that perspective, I would just invite that, and if there’s… There’s a whole body of knowledge about infinity that I’m not going to get into, but I will invite that if you’re willing, whoever you are, and you’re listening, and you would like to breathe the possibility that more awareness of the complexity of who you are as a body and a being would be a guiding force to showing up in relationships for to bring a beloved in or to be in the ones you have, that we can clear anything that blocks you from choosing, choosing to energize yourself first. So what does it take to know that as a body you’re the center of an infinite being? And that all awareness, intuition, guidance, perception is yours to have and that you get to liberate anything anybody’s ever told you about yourself, and you get to know, feel, perceive and receive you for who you are right now in this moment.

Gabrielli LaChiara: The facts of you’re listening to a call because you choose to, because something was important to you. The fact that you’re still listening to the call. [chuckle] Or again, or again. And breathing in the gratitude to yourself for choosing you, even if it’s on behalf of choosing someone else. We will clear anything just energetically that blocks you from seeing, then feeling that grace and activate change, and generate healing. And immediately, we can take a breathe together, and exhale fully. What does it take to be willing to be wrong? Means like, “What if we didn’t live relationships just based on who’s right or wrong, and we actually could live in the essence together?” That’s what comes up for me. [chuckle]

Neil Sattin: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you and thank you for listening to another episode of Relationship Alive. If you are interested in downloading the transcript for this episode, you can visit neilsattin.com/infinity2, and you can also text the word “PASSION” to the number 33444, and follow the instructions, and we can send you a link to the transcript for this episode. If you want to find out more about Gabrielli and her work, which has been so powerful and helpful for me and Chloe, both in our own lives and in our relationship together, you can visit gabrielli.org. I think that covers everything. So Gabrielli LaChiara, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing your techniques and your strategies as well as your wisdom and insight around how we function as humans in relationship and what’s possible for us.

Gabrielli LaChiara: Thank you, Neil. It’s so lovely to be here, and thank you for being here and listening.

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